S5 E1: Navigating Adjustments in Life
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Post Traumatic Growth article overview on Psychology Today
Wabi Sabi by, Beth Kempton
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Change is inevitable. It does not only occur in big transitions (e.g., new job, new home, new school, new relationship, new task, new role, etc.) it can happen in even the smallest ways thereby making adjustments a constant in our life. We even adjust to internal changes like thoughts that run through our mind, moods that we fall into, and emotions that we feel.
Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) and other therapies suggest that we learn to “ride the wave” of our emotions as a way to adjust to changes. For example, we can remind ourselves that what we are experiencing right now may not be what we experience in the future, and so we can ‘ride out’ the discomfort until we adjust, adapt, and circumstances change.
It can be hard to accept change because on the one hand we have to accept that things can get ‘better’ while also accepting that when things are ‘good’ that things can become more challenging and ‘worse’. We are encouraged to accept both sides of the same coin. It can help to not be too strong in our judgments of ‘good’ versus ‘bad’ but to allow things to be what they are.
Making adjustments can be aided by being more present. As a child, and in the ‘beginner’s mind’, we are open and present often without trying. As we get older, it can feel like ‘work’ to be more present as life gets more complicated and stressful. As such, sometimes we can go backward and reflect on how older mindsets can help us in our life now; mindsets that we lost touch with over time.
Holding onto preconceived notions of people, situations, and experiences can interfere with being more present as we make adjustments. Like the ‘first impression’ being the only impression that we activate, leading to judgments and assumptions.
When there is uncertainty in changes and if we lack confidence, it can activate anxiety. It can be that extreme judgments and doubts pop in our mind during adjustments when there is uncertainty. This can hold us back from freely doing the very things that we are capable of doing (e.g., like athletes moving into a higher level and needing to regain their confidence in what they are already capable of).
All-or-nothing, extreme thinking can lead to procrastination in times when we are feeling uncertain of our ability to tackle a task.
It can help to simply label this reaction and thought pattern rather than attaching to it or believing that these extreme thoughts and doubts are based in reality. This is mindful awareness.
As a leader, parent, coach, teacher, etc. it can be difficult to ‘let go’ and allow the child/follower to go off into new situations and make adjustments. It can help to understand and offer what the individual needs rather than trying to control everything. The metaphor is nurturing a flower, plant, or garden by giving it what it needs and then naturally letting it blossom. The individual is inevitably going to make mistakes but that is where deep learning can occur if they feel safe and supported enough to be honest and work through them with your support.
We learn from experience what to expect. We can learn what is safe to approach, what might be better to avoid, and when we need to be brave to ‘get our feet wet’ and gain more experience. Just like the ocean - we can learn how to understand and navigate the nature of the ocean, which can be a very positive or dangerous experience. You can also learn what you need next time (or a new strategy or approach) through the experience. Exposure therapy is much like this, it helps us to learn a lot through the experience, through reflection, and with the support of others.
We may need different things at different stages of life. For example, you may be the ‘best’ athlete who never really needed to work very hard but at some point you will reach a new level where you might actually need additional support, even emotional support.
Try to not judge others who are different from you because you may need what they need at some point in your life. People have different strengths and experiences and we can learn from each other, as we may at some point need what others need and vice versa. Sometimes we project our own insecurities by judging others.
It can take time to adjust to changes you want to make within yourself. You may not change your entire personality but you can allow the change to be integrated into your mind and life over time. Leaders/parents/teachers/coaches can remind themselves that change requires nurturing and can’t be forced or rushed. Openness/honesty, humbleness, and collaboration can be essential.
In making adjustments, it can help to have a vision for how you want to be in a particular role. It can help us to figure out a general framework or guidelines for how to respond and approach different types of situations and experiences. Rather than having a specific formula for how to be (or trying to be like someone else), it can be a general spirit so that you are not too rigid but also have enough structure by having guidelines to guide you. It can be based upon your own values, lessons learned, role-models, books/readings, etc. Having a vision is a foundation that can be grounding and help you feel more steady, especially in the uncertainty. It helps you to control the controllables.
We can remind ourselves to get ‘oriented’ to various aspects of life that involve changes and uncertainty. Just like orientation at college or a new job, it helps us to get acclimated. Orientation does not need to just be at the beginning of something new, we are constantly oriented and adjusting ourselves even in small ways throughout our lives.
We can even learn to adjust to relationships and interactions with others. We can see that each of us have different parts of ourselves that we can connect with and be compatible with… even if we do not connect with and are not compatible with all parts of another person. This allows us to get along with more people and it’s also a great foundation for conflict resolution, by finding common ground and commonalities that we can respect in each other.
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Gerald Reid 00:11
Welcome to season five of the Reid Connect-ED podcast. It's the beginning of September 2024 and at least in New England, the season's about to change to autumn, with all the beautiful foliage that comes with it, and so it seems only appropriate to discuss the many adjustments that we make in our life, not only as seasons change, but also across all aspects of our life.
Alexis Reid 00:31
So change is probably one of the most inevitable things that we can anticipate in life, and change especially in our worlds, in our lives, from day to day, sometimes we don't notice these small little changes that happen. And in fact, a big part of why we wanted to come together and start this new season, season five of the podcast together talking about change, is because, you know, the seasons are drastically changing here, from maybe two weeks ago here in the New England area to today, you know, the temperature has changed, the landscape has changed. The environment has changed.
And a few months ago, I came across the book called wabi sabi by Beth Kempton, and it talks about this Japanese culture and ideas about how we notice and appreciate different aspects of life. And in the book, she talks about how it's really difficult to describe. And in the Japanese language, there really isn't a direct translation into English. And in fact, people there in Japan don't ever really even talk about wabi sabi, because it's more of an experience and feeling than a thing. And I really appreciate this nuanced idea of thinking about how things shift and change and how we appreciate them in the moment. And we'll talk a little bit more about this as we go on. But I want us to notice how there are changes we make in our lives. There are changes that maybe physically or more tangibly we can see and feel. But there's also so many other changes that are constantly happening, and so many changes that are constantly happening inside of us without us even noticing.
And a lot of the things that I do in my work, and I know Jerry you do in yours too, really revolve around change, and most of them aren't monumental, big shifts and changes. It's about making these little tweaks in life, and as wabi sabi reminds us, and the Japanese culture reminds us, the seasonal changes in our environment also impact us so much. But why don't we always pay attention?
We might change our clothes, we might change the articles and hats and accessories that we wear depending on the weather. But why don't we notice how that also impacts us, physically, mentally, spiritually, in our day to day? So let's dive in. Let's let's like the wind, shift and change from our intro to our episode today.
Gerald Reid 03:09
Yeah, Lex great introduction, and I agree. You know, changes and adjustments that we make in life, some are really big. You know, you go from one school to another school. You go from living in one place to another place. You live at home, you live on your own, you you're in one relationship, another relationship, different jobs, right? Those are kind of bigger scale changes. But you know, we're also adjusting internally, right? Our thoughts, our feelings, our mood. One of the you know, principles of dialectical behavior therapy and other therapies as well, is to understand how to kind of ride the wave of our emotions. Because it is possible that, you know, we can be, you know, really in a not a great state of mind, or kind of in a low mood at one point in time, in the day, but if we can kind of ride that out, things could change over time, if we adapt and adjust to whatever circumstances we're in.
And so, you know, this is just kind of a, you know, plug for therapy to kind of look inward, as you're saying, and to understand the adjustments we make can really affect how we feel and change is hard to accept. Because, you know, on one hand, it's great to believe that when things are not feeling great, they can get better, but it's also true. Sometimes things can get, quote, unquote, better, but also inevitably, sometimes things can be more challenging and more difficult and more upsetting. So to accept change, you got to have to appreciate both sides of the same coin. You know, on the one hand, change could go for the better, change can go for the worse, and that's inevitable in life. So that's kind of an existential kind of crisis we had to have to grapple with in our lives, to understand, you know, and to ride out those waves, but certainly some principles in therapy that can help. But
Alexis Reid 04:44
I love that dialectic, and as I was working with a practice here in Boston for many years who focused on Dialectical Behavioral thinking. When I learned about DBT and I learned about these strategies and skills and understanding the dialectic, it really opened my eyes to so many things, right?
We go through our lives, and obviously we realize that different things can exist at the same time, but to imagine that emotions can exist at the same time, because this, I think, is where a lot of conflict comes in for people, where they're like, Well, I feel really sad about this really big thing that happened to me in my life, but I'm also experiencing happiness and joy, because I saw something beautiful that moved me. How can those two things exist at the same time?
And I think that's a really big, important point when we think about shifts and changes in any aspect of life, right? Like even for me, you know, the departure of the summer months that maybe were moving a little bit more slowly for me in my life is a little bit of a grieving process, right? Thinking about just grieving the shift and change of things as they were to as they're becoming. And can I be both, you know, maybe feeling a little bit of sadness that the summer is over, while still experiencing joy and excitement that the fall is coming, and all that the structure and routine of my day to day as it transforms into the fall mostly kind of structured around the school and academic schedule, because that's a lot of people I work with, not all of them, but many of the people I work with are beginning school again. There's this idea of beginning again, and we've talked about this on the podcast. In my mindfulness and meditation studies, there's this idea of beginning again. You know, the in breath and the out breath, the in between is this point that sometimes feels stagnant or uncertain. But the beauty of the idea that we can begin again is really, I think the hopefulness and the excitement, maybe even the point of motivation for a lot of people, at least it is for me.
Gerald Reid 06:46
Yeah, to see things kind of in the in a fret, with a fresh breath, with a new, new point of view, is nice. I was having lunch with someone today, and we were talking about, I kind of made this comment, you know, we're talking about being present, more present more present during the day, because as you get older, more responsibilities, more pressures, more you know, challenges, every you know, life becomes more complicated as we get older. If you're not older, you know, strap on your seat belt, but, um, basically, you know what I was saying is, when you're when you're young and you're a kid, it's almost like you don't have to try to be present as much. You know, it depends on your circumstances. You know, if you're going through a lot of traumatic, traumatic experiences, it could be not so much the case. But you know, kind of the fresh child's mind is just kind of like, everything's new, everything's interesting, Everything's new.
You're kind of open eyes, open ears, open heart, to things. And it's almost like, when you get older, it's almost like you have to kind of go backwards and, like, wait… How do I become more present? It's almost like work to become more present. You have to, like, not make it work, because then it just becomes counterintuitive, and you try to, like, trying too hard to be present. But you know, it's, it's interesting kind of gradual change that I think naturally kind of happens as we get older, that it's good to be aware of it. And a lot of the work you do, the work I do is really helping people become aware of how things change. And sometimes, you know, you have to kind of realize, Wait, how did things change? Like that got to kind of go backwards and maybe kind of shift back to some older mindsets.
Alexis Reid 08:11
We’ve had these conversations before too thinking about, you know, a child's or beginner's mindset. Sometimes it opens your eyes to possibilities that we miss. Often, you and I talk about this a lot, because I always joke that in in relationships, when you're meeting new people, whether it's romantic or friendly or professional or whatever, that we have these, you know, preconceived notions of what to expect of people, and even if you've had prior experiences with people, and they come back into your life, sometimes you're remembering how it was instead of what's right in front of you. And I joke that, you know our frontal lobes, you know the front part of our brains, where our executive functions reside, are more developed now than they were when we were younger. So logically, thinking, critically, thinking like it makes sense why we bring all this with us into these experiences that make it more difficult to be so present. But I joke all the time, because a big majority of our job is being present, being aware, sitting with the person, the situation, the experience that's right in front of us, to be able to help support that moment and those the people or person or people that are with us, but even for us, you know, I will say, I will validate that being present, being just in one moment, is probably one of the most difficult things we can do. And like you said, as a child, you don't think about it, you're just there. You're just in it. But as you get older, there's all these other like things that might get in the way and might interfere with just being, just being
Gerald Reid 09:40
Totally and, you know, sometimes kids are really good problem solvers because of that reason. They're like, grab this, you know, grab all these little tools. And, you know, forget how to build a tree house or something. So, you know, let's think about, let's kind of rewind a little bit when we do make adjustments in life. And adjustments can happen in any aspect. As you said, it could be life stages. It could be even in an inner. Interaction with someone. You know, you're in conversation, you're basically adjusting to each other, to the conversation as it evolves, as it changes different you know, tasks that you have, whether it's at work or a job or in school or, you know, around the house, chore. You know, there could be tasks, right? Even athletes, athletes I work with. You know, you kind of go from just playing to have fun to playing with a lot of pressure. We talked about that with other podcast guests as well. And so what happens when we go through adjustments and changes in life?
Well, I think one of the vulnerabilities that could happen is it can make us anxious, because we don't necessarily know what to expect exactly right. We talked about this in the anxiety episode in Season Three. You know, when you're uncertain, when there's uncertainty, when you're not sure about what to expect. You can't predict everything, when you're not fully feeling confident in being able to do something right. It's very easy for what I have found is, you know, extreme thinking and doubts to kind of pop in your head. It's almost intrusive in some ways, where it's kind of like this extreme, strong, powerful thought can pop in your head that makes it feel like everything is just falling apart. Nothing is good, everything is bad. You start to doubt yourself. You know, this could happen with athletes. They start to doubt their abilities to do things that they're very capable of doing, you know, like athletes train their whole lives to do something, shoot a basketball, right? And then all of a sudden they go to like, you know, reach all their higher level. All of a sudden they're like, Oh, can I, can I do this anymore? I don't even know, but they can, you know, so it's a little bit of a mind trip, but I think, you know, it's good to be aware, and that's why, you know, therapy helps pull back and notice these reactions we have during adjustments. But one of them, we'll talk more about other ones, but one of them is really, you know, kind of these extreme thoughts, kind of all or nothing, everything's good, everything's bad. It's easy to for people to kind of fall into that trap, particularly when you're going through adjustments.
Alexis Reid 11:48
Yeah, I want to, I wanted to bring that up because I mentioned this Lisa and I mentioned this in the book about cognitive thinking traps. And obviously the point of the book is not to go into the mental health side of everything, but just to note that some of these things that can come up for learners, for athletes, for all of us in our day to day, because oftentimes we live in our own heads, in our own thoughts, in our own minds, and we're just going through the motions, and it's so easy to get caught in these thinking traps. And one of the biggest ones that that I tend to see with people of all ages that I work with is this, you know, all or nothing mentality. And again, we go pretty deeply about this in the book, because it comes up in learning and in the classrooms, or really any learning environment, especially around a little bit of cognitive rigidity instead of cognitive flexibility. So instead of thinking, what are all the possibilities? It's like I can either do this or this. I could do all of it, or I could do none of it. And to be honest, even for me, who has a million strategies that I offer to people I work with every day, when something feels too big and like too much, that that sense of overwhelm depending on how tired I am, how stressed I am when a deadline is what else is going on in my world that can feel like too much, and it's very easy to be like, forget it. I'll do this later. You know, you can't always tell when people are in their own heads having these narratives about what is and is not possible.
And what I do find in my work, anecdotally, and I'm sure you do too, is that oftentimes there's only two paths. It is that all or nothing, we're not really looking at different pathways, different options, different possibilities. And that's why it's really helpful in these moments to be able to take a pause and a break. I have this strategy that I use that comes up in the book too, and my student, one of my students, actually helped me to name it Triple A, because it's like, well, what do I actually need right now? Do I need a breath, a breath, a break or assistance? And we don't often catch ourselves in these moments. But one of the things, again, that I think we can always predict is these transitions and changes in life, whether it's a small transition to and from work, you know, in and out of your day to day routine, these different portions of your day, or a bigger transition into a new home, a new family, a new relationship, a new job, a new team, whatever the case may be, it's it's tricky, but we don't often catch ourselves and pay attention enough to say, Well, what do I need right now? Are there other possibilities? Or am I going to lean into this and figure out how to do it all? Or am I going to shut down and not do anything?
Gerald Reid 14:31
Yeah, totally. And one way to catch yourself is to see, you know, am I procrastinating? Am I avoiding something? Because it's very common that we see, and it's just human nature, right? Something feels overwhelming, too hard or too impossible. In our minds, we're gonna avoid it and do something else that feels easier. And so, you know these extreme thoughts of doubt, and you know everything's coming crashing down. It's good to be aware of it and to almost like, just label it as something that's happening, like a bubble popping up, or, you know, that's what. Kind of mindfulness teaches us.
You know, don't take these thoughts too seriously. You know, you can have a doubt that pops in your mind and you're like, oh, wait, is it true that I'm like, a terrible athlete? Now, am I, like, horrible Am I not as good as everyone else? And am I a terrible student? Am I a terrible friend? Do people not like me? Does everyone hate me? Like, I'm saying this quickly, because that's the way thoughts happen. They can. They can happen quickly.
Alexis Reid 15:19
I was like, Jer, slow down, it’s making me anxious.
Gerald Reid 15:25
Yes, I was doing it on purpose
Alexis Reid 15:26
So I'll take a pause. Let's take a breath. Hold on and collect it back together.
Gerald Reid 15:30
Yeah, definitely. So, you know, and we call that, you know, kind of catastrophizing, you know, kind of catastrophizing the situation. And it could be as simple as you're having a conversation with someone, and you try to end the conversation as quickly as possible, because quickly as possible, because you're afraid they're going to judge you, or you feel awkward you don't know what to say. And sometimes people, if they have social anxiety or not, sometimes you don't have social anxiety. And you can do little, subtle ways of avoiding things and just, you know, not engaging with people because you know you're not sure. You're not certain. But if you adjust to a conversation or getting to know someone, or finding commonalities, like we talked about this in the social anxiety episode. You know, it's an adjustment. You got to allow things to naturally unfold, and, you know, stop catastrophizing. You know, the worst case scenario, if it's not ideal in the beginning.
Alexis Reid 16:15
Given the time of this episode being recorded, I would be remiss not to mention the transition to college right now, and the idea of catastrophizing, because I work with a lot of families, and I'm really grateful that the families I work with have a trust in our relationship, in the work that we do together, because I have this really rare opportunity to be able to coach and guide some parents, to be able to release some of the control that they had over their child's lives and and allowing for them to, you know, test their limits and be more independent in a college setting.
And this is a really difficult thing to do. I'm by no means knocking it. I'm just bringing light to the fact that this is a really difficult transition from parents kind of it's like this, like release, idea of letting your child go off and be independent. And those who are working with me are still building their executive function skills, or want to refine their approach to doing things in life and learning. And sometimes it takes a lot of faith to say, okay, you've learned these things. We've supported you this far. Now let's see what you do, because inevitably, there's going to be mistakes, and this is what I say to the students that I'm working with, because there is this anticipatory anxiety, both from the parents and from the children that are beginning college, children, young adults. You know what I'm saying, but the idea is that we have to rest into the idea that they're going to make some mistakes. We all are, but what do we do with them as they totally they come up. I always say I care less about the actual mistake. I care more about how we recover from it. What do we do next?
Because if we fall into that all or nothing trap of like that didn't work. I'm terrible. I shouldn't be in school. I shouldn't be here. I can't do this. It's very difficult to get back up again. So we need to find some kind of middle path, right, which comes from DBT too, that looks at the other options that are available. And I just want to say, you know, for the parents that are going through this, like this big shift and change. Just acknowledge and be empathetic for your experience. It really is a big thing. It's a big life change. It's a milestone in both yours and your child's life.
So I always offer like, let's ease into it. Like, yes, I'm going to be there to help support and guide your child as they enter into this world of adulthood, but also we can rest in some faith that some things are going to work out, and some things aren’t. And, I want to go back to your point about the wave, and this will probably be our logo for this episode, because our whole lives, we've been really connected to and guided by water. It's actually the thing that brings me peace. I think you would agree for yourself too totally. And our uncle, who was incredibly important to us and played a huge role in our lives, passed away in 2020, unexpectedly And before he passed, he gave me this ring, and I'm wearing it today, and it looks like a little wave, because I think that is just such an important symbol to remember that we can't always control the waters. We can't control the tides. And it goes back to the idea that I was mentioning before with Bobby Sabi, that, you know, sometimes the tides, the weather, the temperature, all these things are going to shift and change. Are we going to, you know, recoil and fight against them? Are we going to find a way to embrace, accept and ride that wave?
And I use that as a symbol for me all the time. I have so many different metaphors that we'll talk about throughout the course of this episode, from a wave, to sailboat, which you know, Scott Barry Kaufman uses and I've talked about here on the podcast before, uses the sailboat too. But really thinking about, what are these elements in life that maybe we have no control over, whether they're natural elements or just natural phases of life that we want to control but really have no control over?
And the way I talk about anxiety, even though I'm not a clinical psychologist, and you can fill me in here, Jared, catch me up on whatever I'm missing, is I always think about, you know, anxiety often comes up when we care a lot about a thing, and it amplifies when we have no control over that thing we care so much about. So when we think about a wave, I love being in the water. I love the big waves, but sometimes when they're too big, I get really nervous.
Or I think back to that time when I was like 10, and I got pummeled under the Jersey Shore waves and water and the white water, and I couldn't get up, and I thought I was gonna drown like that memory somehow became a core memory for me, so it helps to protect me from what is to come in the future. Right? Those core memories that sometimes are really difficult, that we go back to, that might create some fear and anxiety, are also the things that are there to protect us if we don't let them overwhelm us. So as we think about transitions and change, and how we adjust, whether it's we're adjusting our mentality about how we think about the situation, if we adjust, maybe the tools we use, maybe I need a longboard instead of a short board to go out surfing because I have a little more, you know, surface area to be working with. Or we adjust the sails on the sailboat, like, you know, we have to consider all the different aspects of it.
Gerald Reid 21:43
So true, yeah, and, and, you know, it's kind of like, the more exposure you have to something, the more information you have, and the more you can kind of connect the dots to see, what can you control? What can you control? You know, grandpa used to always say, you know, “respect the water”. You know, you have to respect the water. And he, what he was saying is, you know, be careful out there. And so sometimes, you know, if you have enough exposure to the ocean, you can get to see what it's like when it's too rough, when, when it's not a good time to be out in the water, and when it is a good time, or when you got to be a little bit brave to get yourself get your feet wet, metaphorically and figuratively and literally, you know, so that's all part of the adjustment is getting more information.
And that's why exposure therapy, you know, for anxiety, is very helpful in a lot of ways for people. Is because you you you kind of get over that hump of avoiding something and by doing so, you can look back and say, Wait, did the things that I was afraid of happening? Did they really happen? You know, because, as you said, we can get so caught up on our heads about terrible, catastrophic thoughts of things, of bad things that could happen and and by the way. PS, you know, there are situations again, respect the water. Sometimes you do have to avoid situations to be safe and to take care of yourself. But sometimes you can stretch yourself with, you know, being, we call it exposure therapy. It's essentially being brave and doing something that you might be hesitant to do, and realizing that you can you can do it, or you build skills by doing it. You gain experience, you gain a new perspective.
You actually learn questions that you didn't know you should have asked in the first place, because you have experience, right? Ever experience or a conversation with someone like, wow, I'd never thought he even asked that question until I had the experience, which, this is a whole other tangent. That's really what a lot of times therapy is. It's like people just spontaneously start saying things like, Oh, I never thought about that until I said it. Well, that's exposure to talking and being honest and open with with yourself and with each other. And back to your original point about parents, if your child can be open and honest with you, you know, work on facilitating that, because, you know, being open and honest, then then it's just, you know, then it's just collaboration. You're in harmony with each other.
You're trying to as John Wooden, one of the best basketball coaches ever in college, he had a quote that said, what's right is more important than who's right, and that's a hard thing for people to grapple with, but when you get into that flow of, you know, collaborating with someone, with a family member, a therapist, a coach, teacher, friend, a romantic partner, you know when you can just flow with each other and just do what makes sense, no matter who's saying it. There's no ego, there's no self consciousness. You're just more open to the natural flow. That's when adjustments really become more smooth, and you can gain more confidence is in relying on each other as much as you rely on yourself.
Alexis Reid 24:27
Yeah, you know, it's and it's also so interesting that sometimes we have to have that faith and trust that again, like I said, even if the mistake is made, you come back and you work through it. Because, like I mentioned about, you know, going into turbulent waters if I haven't gotten pummeled by that wave back when I was a child, would I have this healthy fear and curiosity for the waters the way in which I do? Now, or respect for the waters and the way in which I do now, because I had that not so great experience, right? And of course, you know, thankfully it was okay. I was safe and Okay. So I'm not saying, you know, put everybody in a situation that could be harrowing and possibly dangerous, but we, we need to trust our children, too, to make some of these mistakes and be open and honest about them, so that the change that comes, the adjustments that come, are based on their own experience, because that's often what's going to guide them and protect them.
You know, one of my favorite parts of the neuroscience literature, especially that which is being discussed more often now, is the simple idea of neurons and cells that fire together are going to wire together. Yeah. So when we have these experiences and we're creating these neural connections that we think about that gets reinforced. So it's not about creating a fear of the water. I'm going to use that as an example. It's about saying, “oh, that didn't work so well last time”. How can I approach this differently next time? Who can help me, right? And I, in my work, use like, the 5w and h all the time. It's like, what happened? When did it happen? Oh, it was high tide and there was white water and a really bad Rip Tide. It probably shouldn't have been in the water. Probably not a good idea to go back during those times who was around there was a lifeguard, maybe not as many people in the water as I should have paid attention to, you know, all of the W's and the H like: How can I actually make a better plan for the future? So, you know, this goes out to parents and coaches and really anybody in the lives of anybody else that sometimes we need to release a little bit, and instead of working on the control, because we can't necessarily control much in life. And I come back to the environmental factors in thinking about Japanese culture. Not that I'm an expert by any means, but I'm so curious and really interested in like their lives and in their culture, because it reminds us of the natural beauty that sometimes we don't pay attention to in Western culture, that we are more in tune with what we need to do instead of what is already happening. So instead of trying to control can we learn to appreciate trust and embrace what's happening and really build the trust in our relationships which we do have some control over, versus trying to manage and do for everybody all the time?
And I think I say this as a caution, especially for parents and coaches that we want people to make and especially young people, to make some mistakes, because ultimately, that's where a lot of learning happens. I say that all the time with my students. You know, when you make a mistake, I don't really care about the mistake. I care about what you learn from it, because that's often where the deepest learning tends to happen.
Gerald Reid 27:56
Yeah, I'm gonna use, I love what you're saying. I'm gonna use kind of this philosophy. And also, you know, you always say to your students, you know, what do you need? What do you need? And as you're saying, We can't control everything. What we can control? We can control, which is a big sports psychology term control. We can control the controllables, yeah.
And so what I'm going to suggest, too, is figure out, you know, as whether you're a parent or you're a leader, a boss, a coach, or even in any relationship, right? Instead of trying to control everything, think about what the person needs and almost treat it like you're saying beauty in nature. Imagine a flower blooming or a garden blossoming into whatever it's going to blossom into, if you just kind of take care of that plant or that flower, it's gonna naturally grow. And if you figure out what it needs, it's gonna happen without trying. You don't have to stand there and hovering over it and saying, grow, grow, grow, grow.
You know, there's some research. I guess if you give it classical music, maybe that's something it needs. It might grow more. I gotta look into that. But what I'm saying is, you know, and the flower in the plant is not thinking like it's not consciously thinking, I need to grow, I need to grow. And it just happens naturally. It's in nature. I think human beings, in some ways, as you're saying, is we're kind of like that. So such a big part of life is really kind of reflecting on what our needs are and then finding ways to nourish that, both within ourselves, within our routines, our habits, but also with other people doing that for us, because we don't always know what we need right?
And that's why it's good that we're all different people, different people, different personalities, different perspectives, help us have kind of a 360 view around different needs that we might have, that we might not even realize. You know, even again, back to that thing we're talking about earlier is, you know, a kid's perspective is such a great perspective. We can learn from a child to see things with fresh eyes and an open heart, open mind, sometimes. And also, you know, kids can learn from adults that sometimes you have to be, you know, not so naive, and you kind of have to, you know, be a little bit more regimented and structured and less. Open minded about certain things, because it could lead to, you know, negative consequences. So, you know, both can learn from each other, and that's a natural harmony that we're kind of talking about when it comes to making adjustments.
Alexis Reid 30:11
And there's a lot of, you know, literature out there both to confirm and refute these ideas. So take it with you know, take it for what it is.
Gerald Reid 30:22
By the way, is coffee good for you or bad for you? Because I felt like, over the past three decades, they've gone back and forth.
Alexis Reid 30:28
Well, that's what I'm saying about research. I am a big proponent of science and research. I participated in tons of it, especially in graduate school, and I, you know, you and I both dive into the literature as often as we can, because our work is guided by empirical evidence, but at the same time, it all depends, right? A lot of times the answer is never 100% all the time, right?
Gerald Reid 30:50
Well, maybe it's what we're saying. Then you got to understand what your needs are, and your needs may be different, different times of your life, different person, different context, how much of something is good for you versus not good for you. It's all that's why our work with people is good, because it's individualized, and you get to understand the person full scope, 360
Alexis Reid 31:07
And that's why journaling is so important. All these like, internal reflective practices are really important to kind of, like, go inward to try to figure all these things out. But I was mentioning the research side of things because I wanted to go back to the idea of the flower that's growing. Because in the UDL world, when we do trainings at Cast or through Cast and or through, you know, other work that I've done in the past, we use this idea of a flower might grow regardless of the environment, right? Sometimes, there's a case in the middle of a city, you'll see a flower coming out of the cracks of concrete.
Gerald Reid 31:44
How does that happen?
Alexis Reid 31:45
It happens though, sometimes, right, just like sometimes children who have gone through a lot of aces, adverse childhood experiences, right, sometimes they will thrive, right? There's such a thing as post traumatic growth, where even when you have really difficult situations, you can still thrive and grow from it. So sometimes you will find that flower in the middle of the city that nobody's been tending to, and somehow it emerges, beautiful and bright.
But we also talk about in UDL that when you change the context, when you pay attention to the environment that surrounds you, or the individual or the student or the child, whatever the subject may be, oftentimes, that's where we have some control. Can we create an environment that is nurturing and supportive and safe, that allows for whatever the change, the growth is meant to be, or the intention that we're aiming for to come. And I've been saying this a lot lately, that I'm very careful of saying goals, because I always see goals as like checklists, and those have their purpose in point. But I think for these bigger evolutionary changes and these big adjustments in the lives as we continue to mature and grow as individual humans, it's so important to think about, what are we aiming for? Yeah, because that's more of a journey versus just the destination.
Gerald Reid 33:07
Yeah, 100%, and, you know, it's making me think about someone who could be successful in a certain way for a period of their life. It could even be an athlete or musician. You have natural talent that like, you just, Oh, you don't try so hard. You just kind of, you know, you kind of stand out in comparison to your peers, and over time, like, things get more challenging, right? And that could be in a workplace too, right? You're kind of in a role that really fits you in your adulthood, and you know, you're doing really well in this role, and then you have a new role, and it's different, it's changed, and a lot of change, you have to really try to be humble about the human experience in yourself, and to have such acceptance of yourself that you can't be everything all the time and you what you need. You know maybe when you're just flowing through your job or your work or your sport, what you needed could change, right? Maybe you didn't need so much help. Maybe you didn't need to talk through your emotions or your fears or your worries, your frustrations at that time.
But now maybe you do, and it's important to make adjustments, to just check in and say, Hey, maybe I can even learn from that person that you know people make a lot of judgments, right? If you're like the best athlete, the best you can judge other people for, oh, that person's weak, or they're talking about their feelings. Well, guess what? You may end up in that situation yourself. So I wouldn't judge that person so much, because there may be something that happens to you in your life that you're going to have to adjust to, that you're not going to be ready for, and maybe you can learn something from that person you're judging to be more vulnerable and vice versa. You know, people can learn from each other. You know, maybe you have strengths that the other person can learn from you.
And so what I'm suggesting here is that, you know, it's great that people are different and people have different experiences, and that we can learn from each other rather than judging each other, because you have no idea how life is going to progress. You know, poor you know, look at you know, there could be tragedies that happen in your life, and all sudden, you got to be completely vulnerable. Rely on other people. Share your feelings, or else you're gonna have a really hard time getting through that tragedy in your life. And so what, how we evolve as a person? You know, I've dealt with this with athletes who go through big injuries that can't play their sport. You know, they they evolve as a person, on a personal level, through that experience in ways that maybe they wouldn't have if they didn't go through it. And so, you know, we kind of have to think ourselves okay, maybe, whether it's being too self reliant or too independent, sometimes we gotta say, Wait, I gotta pull back and rely on my support system. Because maybe I didn't need to before, but maybe I need to now. It's all in evolution.
Alexis Reid 35:33
I think we should do a whole episode on judgments at some point, but I'm just gonna circle back to that for a minute, because I and correct me if I'm wrong or you think I'm wrong, Jer, but I actually think oftentimes judgments are when we see things in others or other situations that we either don't feel like we can achieve that we want, or when We're projecting and notice things that we see in other people that we don't love about ourselves or afraid of in other people, or we're afraid of.
Gerald Reid: Yeah, yeah. So true. Lex
Alexis Reid: So I think this idea of judgment is such an important one, and again, maybe we'll unpack, I know your favorite word will unpack that a little bit more at a different time, but I just want to keep that in mind that sometimes these judgments, and it goes back to this, the mental narrative that you were describing before, that we often just get stuck in in our minds. I think when we have, you know, those two key factors, when we start to have these judgments arise, it's a really important investigation as to why that's coming up for you, because it actually is a signal, right?
Like we always say, emotions are signals that help us to know how to navigate different situations, if we use them as that. But I think judgments also are signals to help us figure out, Okay, is there something I need to work on for myself, or is there something that maybe is out of my control that just feels really overwhelming in this moment, that maybe I can find a different path to acceptance. And I think judgment and acceptance come hand in hand, and I, you know, we've both been trained in Acceptance and Commitment Therapy, and I… not to go into protocols and things, but the idea and concept of it is to recognize and understand how both our internal and external habits guide and dictate us as we navigate through life. And there's some aspects that I think are really important to pay attention to, if they're getting in the way, if they become hindrances to the things we value and care most about. But then there's also other pieces of us that sometimes we need to accept, even the imperfections, even the things that maybe don't always feel right, can we understand and appreciate them as a part of ourselves? I talk about this often with friends, about relationships, romantic relationships, that the person that you're going to end up with, the partner that you're going to spend the most time in your life with, we have to accept, you know, the stuff that we don't like about them, because there's always going to be things that maybe you don't always like or jive with when you're with other people, because we're all different, yeah, and that's probably one of the hardest things to do, because the people you love the most, for the most part, I wonder if the listeners will agree with this… The people we love and care about the most are the people we want to see do the best. Yeah, and when they're not, sometimes it makes us uncomfortable, and some people will swoop in and try to problem solve and support and oftentimes it causes conflict.
So, I just you know, this is why the idea of paying attention to these transitions and adjustments and changes in life is so important because it often reveals some really interesting, nuanced information about ourselves that we can pay attention to and figure out what's needed. Because, like you say, I do ask that question a lot, like, how can I help? What do you need? But the reality is, a lot of people don't know how to answer that question, or when I ask it, they're not prepared for it, even though they've heard it for me many times before, because diving deep and actually acknowledging that is a really difficult process and really oftentimes hard to articulate.
Gerald Reid 39:23
Totally, yeah, and like to change in some way is a process. And you may people may not be ready to change, right? There's whole literature on the stages of change. You know, first you kind of contemplate the idea of change, is it worth it? Is now worth it? Then you kind of think about how you might actually make the change, which could be, like, super daunting. Like, how do I even go about this? And in terms of, like, psychologically, you think about integrating a change into your whole consciousness and your being could take time. Let's say, like, you're an athlete, you're a very one track mind athlete, and you're just kind of focused on what you need to do, and all of a sudden you need to become more of a. Team player. You need to become more of a leader, or something along those lines. That person is not going to, you know, as a coach, you got to be mindful. That person's not going to just, like, randomly, automatically, spontaneously change. You know, you can't just change your personality immediately.
Alexis Reid 40:14
Yeah, from being the superstar to being a team player, yeah, or, like, going from a team where they relied on just you, because you were the superstar, to carry the team to a different dynamic, on a different team. I see this all the time, especially with, like, high school athletes who are at the peak, and they're really elite athletes, and then they join a higher level of play, or college or professional, right? You know, I think of, you know, LeBron, like the greats, right? Yeah, playing on the Olympics or the Olympic team, my goodness, and it's, it's actually been cool. And maybe this is just because I'm paying attention to it differently, to watch the evolution of these big teams over time, because, I think, because there are sports psychologists involved too, talking about these things, because it seems like there's, like, a little bit more humbleness somehow, somewhere, say that it's hard, yeah, just acknowledge like, Hey, this is difficult to play with other elite athletes at the same time. Totally, regardless of your sport. I'm just using that as an example.
Gerald Reid 41:13
Totally. So whether or not you're a Boston Celtics fan, by the way, they won the championship. Congrats. 2024 huge congratulations. Yeah, the parade here is pretty fun. So Joe Mazulla, who's the coach, you know, Alexis and I, we, we saw him being interviewed on NESN, which is one of the sports channels here in Boston, in New England. And he was talking about how he transitioned to becoming a coach, because he was a player, right? And, you know, eventually he worked up the ranks to become Head Coach of the Boston Celtics. You know, when you get to a whole new level like that, it's almost like, you know, people talk about imposter syndrome, people talk about this and that, you know, he, he talks very openly about grappling with all this stuff. Like, you know, who am I as a coach? And you know, like, how can I? How can I fulfill this role? And again, there's no, there's no handbook about how to be a leader yourself. There's there's books about how to be leader and books about leadership, but there's no book about you as a leader. You'll never find a book that says, hey, like Alexis Reid, this is your leadership book based on you as a person and all of your life experiences, there's no book.
Alexis Reid 42:25
Yeah, all of your characteristics, all your skills, strengths, weaknesses, experiences, everything that'd be kind of cool though.
Gerald Reid 42:34
Imagine
Alexis Reid 42:36
We are going to talk about AI later this season. So sorry, I had to do it.
Gerald Reid 42:42
I will probably miss all the context, exactly the fear of it all. And so, you know, Joe Mazulla really had a nice way of putting he said, I had to create a vision for myself about how I want to be as a leader for this team in this organization. And he integrated different parts of himself what he appreciated about the Boston Celtics, the team, the player. You know how he wanted to be. His past experiences as a player, he integrated different aspects of his life into a vision. And having a vision is important because it guides you. You know, it's not like a cookie cutter, do, X, Y and Z, everything will be great. It's more of like a guiding framework that helps you say, Okay, in this type of situation, I probably want to approach it this way. In that type of situation, probably approach it in this type of way.
It's almost like the spirit of how you want to approach it, rather than kind of a cookie cutter, X, Y, Z formula, necessarily. So, you know, having that guiding framework does help with adjustments, and it doesn't mean that's not going to change over time. You know, people evolve as leaders in relationships. You evolve, you know, we talk about this and in relationships. You know, as you get older, you kind of change within the relationship, and you got to grow together. You know, evolve together in relationships and so and so forth, so. But having a vision as a starting point really helps, even if that evolves over time. It really kind of gives you more grounding, and it helps you to feel more safe in some ways, and more like, you know, kind of controlling the controllables in some ways, but also it helps you communicate better, too, right?
If you have a framework, I tell my students who are training to become therapists, I supervise them, and I teach them at BU of the grad students, and at Boston University, the grad students and and I really encourage them have a framework in mind about how you're working with someone. You don't want it to just be some random conversation you're having, and you also don't want it to be too regimented, where you're just kind of reading off a list about what you're asking them. Try to have a framework conceptualization that helps ground and guide what you're saying, types types of questions he asked, the way that you interact with that person, types of information you're trying to understand and gather, because it helps you to be more present and less pressure, less kind of rigid, and a little bit more open with with enough structure to guide you. And so I'm not sure how we got on this whole tangent, but you. So having that, I'll just say, helps you to be more present and adapt if you have a vision for yourself.
Alexis Reid 45:05
Well, I think it goes back to what you were saying, like a playbook on yourself to be a good leader, right? And there's this, you know, the ancient Greek proverb of “Know thyself”. And I think it's so important, regardless of what position you step into. I think this should be, you know, this is part of why we do the work we do. This is why we're here in this podcast, recording these episodes, that if we can offer suggestions for people to dive a little bit deeper inside of themselves, to really get clear on who they are, what they want. You know, a lot of the people I work with, they are on this journey to better understand themselves, and it comes down to having faith in something.
And Joe Mazulla talks very openly about his faith and how it guides him as a leader and as a person. But I think it comes back to being clear on who you are, what your values are, finding a way to better understand and believe in yourself. And that's what I was talking about with Acceptance and Commitment Therapy. That's really the goal of it all. And you know, coming back to, what were you saying about the coach of the Celtics, Joe Mazulla, it reminded me. It brings me back to wabi sabi again, right? And I'm just going to read a brief quote from Beth Kempton here from her book, which, again, I have no affiliation to her, but I really was moved by a lot of what she says in here, and a lot of it's actually very similar to some of the work I do with my clients. But she says, “Wabi sabi is an intuitive response to beauty that reflects the true nature of life. Wabi sabi is an acceptance and appreciation of the impermanent, imperfect, and incomplete nature of everything Wabi. Sabi is a recognition of the gifts of simple, slow and natural living.” So when we think of it more as, as she says, “a state of the heart”, being able to capture these experiences and again, going back to knowing ourselves, I think it helps for us to embrace and appreciate this impermanent changes and fluctuations that come up in life. And I'm going to bring it back again to college, and shifting into college, especially as I was working with a lot of college students this past few days, their first week of school, that there's this idea of orientation, right? A physical the noun of orientation. But I actually want us to think about orientation as a verb.
Gerald Reid 47:27
I think that was one of the first times, like, I've heard people use the word orientation. Is when I went to college. Like, orientation, okay? Like, people don't really use that word too much in, like, everyday language.
Alexis Reid 47:37
Let's bring it back into our vernacular, right? Like, how do we orient to this situation. And I, you know, we write about it in the book, I coach a lot of teachers and parents about this too. Can we orient to the responsibilities? Can we can we actually come up with agreements of how we want things to be, have these expectations that are very clear, that we can work on and adjust two together, as a family, as a community, in a relationship as a classroom, whatever the case may be, but this noun of an orientation that happens once at the beginning of a semester as you start college, I think it's ridiculous, because we're constantly orienting to so much in life.
So you know, it's not just a series of activities and exercises or like whatever the boring talks might be that I hear complaints about sometimes, but colleges, please keep doing this, because I think it's so important and valuable. But it's about helping to appreciate that there are going to be shifts and changes, and there are these resources available to you. So if we can think as a coach, as an educator, as a parent, as a friend, as a partner, whatever that we're constantly orienting and adjusting ourselves doesn't need to be huge shifts and changes.
It doesn't need to be a big week that we devote to it. Maybe it's just a quick few moments. How you feeling? What do you need? What's important to you? Has that changed? Because in our lives, we really do have different chapters of our lives. I don't necessarily think many people have like, huge shifts in different versions of ourselves. I think we just show up and express ourselves a little differently based on what we learn and what we experience in our lives.
So we need to pay attention to that. And I'm gonna share this caution, because I get in this trap sometimes too. Is that oftentimes, with people we know, students, we've worked with, athletes, we've coached before, we expect them to be the same as when we first met them. Yeah, that imprint of that like first impression, that's why everybody says it's so important, yeah, but that's not really who people are, even, like, five minutes from then or a week from then, or a semester from then, or a year or years from then, like, there's always going to be qualities and characteristics that remain. But we want to be open and mindful to the fact that we are always evolving, whether we're making intentional adjustments. Or not. Just as the seasons shift and change, there's always going to be changes that are happening. And if we can go back to, like you said, that childlike mentality, that curiosity and more open minded and open heartedness, yeah, I think we could actually see more beauty in life more frequently and more often.
Gerald Reid 50:22
Yeah, I love that. And even like within people, because people have, as you're saying, different parts of themselves, and even if it turns out that you're not fully compatible with all the parts of that one person, maybe like, you know, in a certain class, in a certain context, in a certain situation, or, you know, you do jive with a part of them, you know, maybe you guys, maybe you and that other person, you're both really love to make jokes, and there's a certain context where you really get to have joke with that person. Or maybe you like to have deep conversations, and you jive with that part of that person in a certain context. Maybe you're not best friends, maybe you're not super close, but you still have a part of each other that you can find compatible, and you may not know that until you give them a chance or just allow that situation or that context to take shape.
And so, you know, it's nice to be able to see that. It's almost like a tour of, you know, the country or the world, where you can get to see different beautiful aspects of nature. It's all different. And if you open yourself to different parts of people, you're like, oh, you know what, I may not visit Europe all the time, maybe once in my life, but like, if I go there, I'm gonna really appreciate this aspect that they have, in terms of the beauty that's there, or the, you know, the California coast, you know, I may not be there my whole life, but when I was when I was there, I really appreciated this aspect, similar with people in relationships, you know, and and to be open to that and to connect with parts that you do appreciate, even if it's not the full part that also can be really good for conflict resolution. We're not going to get into that now in this episode. But you know, we've talked about this before is, you know, finding common ground. Finding commonalities is really, really, really important for conflict resolution, so that you can work towards a goal that's good for teams, by the way, too. Athletes, you know, Shaq and Kobe reportedly hated each other, but somehow their coach, Phil Jackson, got them to work together towards a common goal and to find something within each other that they respected enough.
Alexis Reid 52:17
We don't always have to agree, but we can be respectful, and we can even find some common ground sometime and share a little love and kindness. I think it goes a really long way.
Gerald Reid 52:29
For sure. Well, Alexis has been super nice to start season five. September 2024 we're looking out the window here in this beautiful new office cyber Sound Studios in Boston, Copley Square.
Alexis Reid 52:43
There's a lot going on, and we're really excited to share it with you in these next few months for season five, and we're going to keep this rolling. So thank you all for all of your listenership and for spreading the messages. This is growing and is happening because of all of you sharing your interest and letting others know about what we're doing and what we're sharing. And Jerry, I'm grateful for your collaboration. This has really been a privilege and a really amazing thing to do.
We've been again, I'll say it over and over again. We've been trying to find ways to give back, and this is kind of our philanthropic effort to be able to produce this in such professional way and to get it out to the masses. So thank you for spreading the word and for supporting us by just listening and being there and sharing with others.
Gerald Reid 53:35
Yeah, it couldn't be a better time too in our lives, professionally, personally, you know, you feel like timing is everything. Sometimes I feel like this is the right time, the right place, the right you know, we've had the right experiences, training, all the everything we've been through. You know, this didn't just happen overnight, to be able to pull off this podcast, you know. So I feel like, you know, there's a lot behind the scenes that went into feeling like we can do this together, and what a great relationship we have, which I really value. So excited for this season, Lex
Alexis Reid 54:04
For sure, and we wish everybody a great next few months ahead be well
Gerald Reid 54:10
Go Celtics.
Gerald Reid
Thanks for tuning in to the Reid Connect-ED podcast. Please remember that this is a podcast intended to educate and share ideas, but it is not a substitute for professional care that may be beneficial to you at different points of your life. If you are needed support, please contact your primary care physician, local hospital, educational institution, or support staff at your place of employment to seek out referrals for what may be most helpful for you. ideas shared here have been shaped by many years of training, incredible mentors research theory, evidence based practices and our work with individuals over the years, but it's not intended to represent the opinions of those we work with or who we are affiliated with. The reconnected podcast is hosted by siblings Alexis Reid and Dr. Gerald Reid. Original music is written and recorded by Gerald Reid (www.Jerapy.com) recording was done by Cyber Sound Studios. If you want to follow along on this journey with us the Reid Connect-ED podcast. we'll be releasing new episodes every two weeks each season so please subscribe for updates and notifications. Feel free to also follow us on Instagram @ReidConnectEdPodcast that's @ReidconnectEdPodcast and Twitter @ReidconnectEd. We are grateful for you joining us and we look forward to future episodes. In the meanwhile be curious, be open, and be well.
One aspect of life that we can always count on is the inevitability of change. In fact, this episode is dawning of its own change: our inaugural episode of Season 5, the beginning of a new academic year, and our first episode in the new Cyber Sound Studios space in Back Bay Boston.
New beginnings, changes, and everywhere in between, allow for us to be in a place where we can Begin Again So as we begin again, this episode explores the nuances of accepting the imperfections that may arise in ourselves or our lives while embracing the changes and beauty in life.
The Boston Celtics, college transitions, new beginnings, and so much more come up in our conversation for Season 5, Episode 1. Join us…
Be curious. Be Open. Be well.
The ReidConnect-Ed Podcast is hosted by Siblings Alexis Reid and Dr. Gerald Reid, produced by and original music is written and recorded by www.Jerapy.com
*Please note that different practitioners may have different opinions- this is our perspective and is intended to educate you on what may be possible.
